This month I’m inviting 30 magical authors to share how writing a book has created transformation in their lives as part of The Magical Portal Project.
As I was visioning into my dream contributors for the project, Vanessa Sage was one of them. There was only one problem. As far as I knew, Vanessa hadn’t written a book.
But intention is a POWERFUL thing and just before the project was due to start, Vanessa shared this post on Instagram saying that she’d made a decision to start writing her book.
I knew that Vanessa had been thinking about this for a while and I was curious about the transformation that she’d already experienced through the process of making the decision to start working on a book. So I reached out and asked whether she’d be willing to have a conversation about this as part of the Magical Portal Project.
And luckily for us, she said yes!
Take a look at our conversation below and if you’re a reader rather than a watcher, you’ll also find a full transcription of the interview under the video.
Find out more and join the free Magical Portal Project here.
NICOLA: Hello and welcome to this episode of Unbound. I’m Nicola Humber author of “Unbound” and founder of the Unbound Press. And today I am very excited to be joined by Vanessa Sage. Welcome Vanessa.
VANESSA: Thank you so much for having me.
NICOLA: Oh, I’m, like I said, very excited, because these episodes during August are part of the Magical Portal Project, which is this project where I’m inviting different writers to share how writing a book has changed their life. And when I was thinking about who I wanted to be involved, I really wanted Vanessa to be involved. But you hadn’t actually written a book. You wrote a dissertation, because you got your PhD.
VANESSA: Which is basically a book.
NICOLA: Exactly, it is. It is. And we could talk about that. How doing your PhD has changed your life! Vanessa is a priestess, and she’s a business and spiritual mentor. I’m currently in Vanessa’s Sage Tarot School, which is this three-year at Tarot School and a completely new experience for me. I have very little experience at tarot. So, I’ve known Vanessa for… I’ve probably followed you for a couple years now, I think. And like I said, I really wanted Vanessa to be involved in this project. But I thought, “How can I make it happen?” And then, I think we were only a few days into the project, a few days into August. And you put this announcement on Instagram saying, “I am ready to write my book. I’ve made the decision that I am going to write it.” And I knew the idea had been bumbling around for you for a while, but this really strong commitment, I thought… Ooh, it would be interesting to talk about the transformation that happens just through making the decision to write a book. So, that’s why I’m excited to have this conversation, Vanessa.
VANESSA: Thank you.
NICOLA: Vanessa’s like, “Oh my goodness, what have I-“
VANESSA: I was looking at that announcement this morning. Because when I announced that, I have to admit, because in that announcement I said a few things that actually had been scaring me and had been kind of stopping me from actually writing. And I had this moment where, you know, sometimes when you put something out there there’s like that tingling and, you know, those feelings, right? Like there’s… it’s very activating in your body. And the response that I received was beyond what I could’ve even imagined. I mean, it was just social media. Just a social media thing. But on both my accounts it was… I received unbelievable support. Which actually put me into the cave. I, like, did everything else. I’m gonna clean my house. I’m gonna organize everything. And I think that’s pretty common, right? When you make that commitment to do something, and then it gets real, right? And you’re like, “Okay, so, what does this really, really look like?” So, it’s already been, it’s already been very interesting. And, you know, I had to actually work through quite a lot to even get to the point where I was, “You know what? It’s time. It’s time to actually do this.” And I’m really discovering my voice again. I’ve had many different voices in my life. As I think, I think often writers will feel this way. You know, I have an academic writing voice.
NICOLA: Yeah.
VANESSA: Right? And as I’ve been preparing as well, I actually went back and looked at my academic work. Because a lot of the themes that I want to talk about… So, basically my book, it’s about priestessing and pilgrimage and a living poetics. Which is really just my whole… It’s like my soul. And so, you can’t get away from your soul, right? So, I’ve been exploring these themes throughout my life in many, many different ways. Like when I was a little girl, I knew I was a poet. That’s all, you know? Ballerina, vet, poet.
NICOLA: I love that!
VANESSA: I realized that I loved animals, but I don’t want to be a vet. And I think we all… Many, many little girls want to be a ballerina. But no, I knew that I wanted to be a poet. And I didn’t know how that could look. Because we don’t actually live in a world where poets are fed and housed.
NICOLA: Exactly.
VANESSA: It’s a tough, tough thing. And I was fortunate enough when I was very young to have a family friend who was a poet. And he encouraged me. I remember in 1988, he came over. Because I was always writing poems. He came over and he said… I was reading him my poem, I think about my dog.
NICOLA: I love that connection! Animals. Poetry.
VANESSA: And he had poems about hockey and spaghetti. And he was a published author, so, like, he had several books of poetry. He taught poetry and philosophy at a university. Had an MFA. And he… I was… Well, if it was 1988, I was 13. So, that’s how old I am. And, um, he looked at me from across the kitchen table, and he said, “You are a poet.”
NICOLA: Wow.
VANESSA: And that was… Having someone name you in a positive way was really important for me. And I actually chose not to get an MFA. Because I didn’t want it to kill the poetry.
NICOLA: Yep.
VANESSA: Because I knew a lot of people in MFAs, and I had taken creative writing in a university, a lot of English courses. You know, I was kind of immersed. And my ex was actually an English professor. So, I kind of had a sense of what that world was. And I was concerned that the emphasis… Not that craft is not a good thing! But the high emphasis on craft and the high emphasis on being in the right places and the right publications and all of this kind of thing was just something that I didn’t want to do. I didn’t want… I didn’t want that to affect my writing. And now, many years later, I’m realizing how social media is affecting my writing. And I’m actually wanting to take my writing back, my voice back from social media. And I’m seeing this in the world of authors, as well. That charisma and having a large following and these kinds of things get book deals.
NICOLA: Yeah.
VANESSA: And it doesn’t necessarily produce the best books. So, I’m starting to get a little skeptical, even in a different way, of the publishing industry. So, it’s been a kind of interesting, winding path. Because in the middle of that, I also got a PhD in Anthropology. And you do have to… I mean, I spent a lot of time writing. I’ve spent probably more time writing than I’ve done anything. So many different ways of writing. I feel like this is a very circular, spiral way of talking about voice!
NICOLA: I love a spiral!
VANESSA: Obviously not planned! But yeah, so it’s like there’s been this core soul that’s been wanting to express. And finding all these different avenues to do that. So like, even in my academic career, I was really interested in everyday materiality and spirituality. And this is what I do in my professional life now as a priestess and tarot and all of that. And so, this feels like another layer of letting that soul out.
NICOLA: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And it’s something I wanted to ask you about actually, Vanessa. Because a lot of the women that I work with either come from an academic background or sometimes a corporate background. And there’s this process of almost unlearning the way we’ve been taught to write in those environments. And to find… To find our voice again, to find our true voice, and to be able to express that in a way that allows that real essence of what we want to share to come through. And I feel like you’ve done that so beautifully, from reading your posts on social media. So, I’m interested in what you say about… Even with social media, that’s a kind of different voice or we kind of share in a different way there.
VANESSA: I think so. I think, you know, I probably write differently. I know I write differently in my journal. You know, social media became kind of, like, almost like a public journal in a way.
NICOLA: Yeah.
VANESSA: I think it’s that way for a lot of people. But it’s a different voice that comes through compared to, like, the teaching voice that I have. But, I mean, even in terms of addressing the academia question in writing. I was… I was always pushing the boundaries of writing within academia. Even to the point where, you know, I would write papers and my main concern was, “But is it written well?” I had a supervisor who didn’t understand my… And she was avant-garde. Okay, so this was an avant-garde supervisor who still was very entrenched in having a core theoretical framework of approaching the world. And I remember sitting down with her after my comprehensive exams. We wrote three comprehensive exams. I wrote one on the illusive. I ended it with a poem.
NICOLA: Ah, I love it.
VANESSA: And then there were all these, like, pieces of memoir with moments of… And I’m still very interested in exploring this. Like, of fragility and momentary wonder and collapse and ruin. I’ve always been really interested in ruins and decay and the kind of ephemeral nature of the world. And I also wrote a comp on spirituality and materiality. And I remember going into my… right before my exam. This is not what you should do if you’re a mentor to anyone! And she looks at me and she says, “Are you an artist or an anthropologist?”
NICOLA:Oh…
VANESSA: Because the questions I was asking and the things I… And I was really looking at artists and how… Like Andy Goldsworthy. How he created and still does, like, creates… If you haven’t heard of him, go check him out, but he creates temporary art in nature. And shows you something of what the world can be in those moments. And it was really exciting to me. I wanted to talk about, like, you know… At one point he, like, took stones from the river and crushed them and threw them back into the river.
NICOLA: Wow.
VANESSA: And that was, like, that’s a poetry! That’s, like, a living poetry, right? And, anyway, she was asking me, like, “Well, I don’t understand?” Because I would take… I would look at different theorists. And I would see the value in the different things that they were saying. Which, from an anthropological point of view, is actually the thing that you should do. We’re not… We actually weren’t trained to… At least, I believe in a core way. I mean, the point is to keep your mind open.
NICOLA: Yeah!
VANESSA: So, why would I not keep my mind open? So, she’s like, “Oh, it’s like clouds for you. Theory is like clouds.” Theory was just, for me, it was just moments of inspiration. Just like a poem would be. It was just like, “Oh, I see the value in that. I see how that sparks something.” There’d be moments like sparks. Yeah. And that’s how I wrote. I would write in pieces. I was also really interested in contradiction and layers. And so, that’s kind of how my writing was in academia. It was very… I wanted to contrast contradiction, build up layers, find fleeting moments that meant something. So, I was always kind of doing that. But when I look back on my papers now, there’s some of it that I’m like, “Oh yes, I want to remember that. I want to remember how I was able to do that and be able to do that in this book.” And then there’s other layers of the proposal. And, you know-
NICOLA: Yeah.
VANESSA: I was looking at my old, um, you know, we had to write federal scholarship proposals and things like that. And, you know, the thought came into my head, “Well, I know how to write an academic book. So, I will follow those steps for this.” And instead, I went to take a drum journey.
NICOLA: I love that.
VANESSA: And I got told that, “No, that’s not the way. It’s not the way.” So, I’m in an interesting moment in time to see where this is going to take me. But clearly, I’m heading more towards the journey.
NICOLA: Yeah, absolutely!
VANESSA: I’ll stick to that!
NICOLA: Of course. Oh, it’s so interesting. I love it. I love it. And it is almost like allowing the process to unfold in the way that it wants and it needs to. Which can feel scary, can’t it?
VANESSA: Yes. Well, and we’re living in a world right now where, you know, a part of me was thinking, “Well, I mean, can you even write a book that’s patchwork? Is that even going to be… accepted or readable to someone else? What would that look like?” And then, you know, the other voices start coming into your head. And I actually wrote down this morning, like, “What would happen if I just let go of all those voices?” And I just forgot the audience. Forgot who they were. Forgot, you know… Because, you know, in the academia, you knew who the audience was.
NICOLA: Yeah.
VANESSA: Very specifically knew who the audience was. You knew when you were pushing. And, you know, still did that. But at the same time, it was very, very clear. But yeah, I don’t want the audience to get in my head around what I want to write and the way I want to write. And maybe some of it that’s going to be poetry and some of it’s channeled and some of it’s academic. And maybe all of those things can live in one place. I don’t know. We’ll find out!
NICOLA: I believe they can! Absolutely! Absolutely, yeah. And I think that’s something that’s come through in this project, actually. So many of the authors and writers that I’ve been speaking to have said, “You have to write it for yourself first.” You can’t be thinking about your audience. Obviously, we want, you know, we’re writing it because we want to share it. But it has to be for yourself first. So, I’m excited to see what comes out of this, Vanessa. But how long has the idea been there that you were going to write a book? Because I know you’ve mentioned it a few times, I’ve noticed, on social media.
VANESSA: It’s been there for awhile. Funnily enough… Okay, so… Trump got elected.
NICOLA: Oh.
VANESSA: And I was out. What I did that day was I went out and sat by the ocean. And that’s all. I’m not watching the news. I’m not going online. Anything like that. And in the six weeks afterwards, I decluttered my home. That’s all I did. I stopped the business. So, for six weeks, I had… I’d had a priestess program running. It had ended. And I had… I had a program I was gonna run, and I said, “This is not the time.” So, I paused everything. And it made no sense. And in the course of doing that… I know this is a strange story. But in the course of doing that, I uncovered an old proposal I had written about fragility. And looking at the ways in which… spirituality takes material form. And the sites I was interested in at the time were crop circles, because I’d done my Masters on that, ruins, stained glass, and trees. Because there was a, um… Kind of, a sense of… From these temporary temples of the crop circle. Which were there today, gone. To an ancient tree. To a human-made stone circle. Or ruin, like in Glastonbury Abbey, was going to be one of the sites. To stained glass, which can get broken in a moment, right? And so, there was this kind of interest in the layers of fragility and temporariness. Because I’m also a Buddhist, and so I’m always kind of interested in permanence. And, you know… How can we live fully with the time we have? And it was then that I realized, “Well, no, I’m not going to do that research. But I do still want to write that book.” I do still want to explore those themes. And then life happened. And, um, you know, I run pretty intense programs. And they take up a lot of space and time. And that was the year I also… I changed priestess training into priestess certification. Which went from… It was a massive leap from what it had been to what it is now. And so, my focus really needed to go there. And then, I went on a pilgrimage. In the… And we met at the end!
NICOLA: Yeah, you did! So, that was this year. Earlier this year.
VANESSA: Yeah.
NICOLA: Yeah, so good.
VANESSA: So, one of the things that has… I had a breakdown over some things that were happening on social media. And I was very… I think in my head I was very quiet, but I don’t really actually think I’ve been quiet at all. And… I needed to find out again… Like, the soul of being alive. Like, I wanted to know again what it… Because, again, social media can get… It’s real, and it’s not. We’re talking right now because of social media.
NICOLA: Mm hmm. Yeah.
VANESSA: People will listen to this because of social media. Like, it’s a beautiful thing. It’s a beautiful, connecting thing. And it can also… I was at the point where it was disconnecting me from who I am. What I think, what I believe. You know, the voices were getting really, really loud. And I actually had intended on writing a book while I was there. But when I got there… So, I went to Crete for six weeks, and then I went to Malta. Although, I knew I was going to Crete. I had six weeks. I was in Athens and then Crete. So, that was seven weeks of the three-month trip. I actually didn’t know what I was gonna do with the rest of the time. I just knew I would end in Glastonbury. I had that planned down. And I would go and I would see my mother and then come home. But it was three months door-to-door from the time I left. And in that… And then I decided while I was there that I really wanted to go to Malta, and then I also went to Rome. And… When I got to Crete, I realized that what I really needed was healing. I just needed to be there. And that it was too much… I actually didn’t want to when I got there. I didn’t want to. I didn’t want to be holed away writing. I wanted to be out walking and exploring. And just… I wanted to be in the world. I did not… And that was fine for me. I mean, I was like, you know, at first I was like, “What’s going on? Why am I not writing?” This was supposed to be what I was doing. And then I just realized, “No, it’s okay. I am writing. Just not writing.”
NICOLA: Yeah.
VANESSA: I’m having the experience that I can write about later. And… And then while I was in Glastonbury, I saw my healer. And she’s like, “You have to write! And you have to do it now!” Like, “You can’t wait!” I almost sometimes wonder if I’ve waited too long, because it’s been three months. And then, I ended up teaching in my priestess program about the subjects that had been especially painful for me. And really found some strength in that. And through that I realized, “You know what? I’m ready. I’ve said it. I’ve said some things out-loud. I’ve said them to myself. I’ve said them to others. And now, it’s time to start.”
NICOLA: Absolutely. And I think it’s so powerful what you just spoke about there. Like, you went on this pilgrimage. And following you on social media on your pilgrimage was such a gift. It just felt so… felt like I was on the pilgrimage with you. It was so gorgeous. So, thank you for sharing. But like you said, even though you have this idea that you’d be holed away writing… And sometimes, I think, we can have expectations of the writing process. But it was all part of the process for the book. It just didn’t look the way you expected it to. But all of that is gonna inform your writing in such a gorgeous way. So, yeah.
VANESSA: And two days before I made the announcement on social media, I was talking to my mother. And I said, “Mom, I taught about these things.” My mother is, um, she was a biological anthropologist. She’s retired now. But one of Canada’s top biological anthropologists. And, um… So sometimes I’ll talk to her about teaching, and I’ll say, “You know, I taught about anthropology. I taught about culture. I taught about appropriation. I taught about these things. I taught about inclusion.” And, she’s like, “Wow!” She’s really, really proud of me. And then, you know, we get into conversations. You know, because we both… I think, her retired and me not in academia anymore, we have that together. Where we can… Even though she’s a biological anthropologist and I’m a cultural anthropologist, we can still share that joy. And there are very few people in my life where I can actually have that kind of conversation with. And in the course of that conversation, she just said to me, “And, Vanessa, this is why you have to write the book. The world needs your book.” All right!
NICOLA: But how many ways can this message come through?
VANESSA: Yeah!
NICOLA: Oh my goodness. In your post that you shared, when you said, “Yes, I am doing this now.” You know, you spoke about the fear that was coming, had been coming up around it. And I wonder if you could, like, speak a little bit about that. Because I know so many of the women watching this or listening to it will be… Either be feeling those fears right now or certainly have been feeling them. So…
VANESSA: Yeah, absolutely. I think whenever you share, there’s that fear. I mean, Brené Brown talks about it so well, around the vulnerability hangover and… And I think I realized that I hadn’t really fully stepped into the arena. I had been watching other people in the arena. And in some ways, I am in the arena. But in other ways, I’m not. And I realized it was time to learn how to do that. And… I also think I will need support as I’m going through this. So, this is a very interesting moment in this process. Because I really am just at the beginning, where I’m just… I have the feeling of it. And I don’t know what will come. And I also am giving myself permission for anything I say here or anything I’ve said before that that may not actually be what the book is. And that’s okay.
NICOLA: Yeah.
VANESSA: And to let the book be what it needs to be. And not worry about, “Well, oh, I said that on July 30th… I said it was gonna be…” The only contract I’ve made is a contract with myself to write the book.
NICOLA: Absolutely.
VANESSA: But part of it’s memoir and, you know, part of it is going into some stuff that’s hard to look at. And that maybe I’ve looked at in some ways, but when you write… I mean, I remember I started trying to write in the fall, and every time I would start writing, I would start crying. And… That’s okay! But it’s also good to recognize when you’re ready and when you’re not. And I don’t actually think I was ready in the fall. Because I look at the writing that I did then, and I actually feel like I needed to do that for myself. But it’s not meant to be in the book.
NICOLA: Yeah.
VANESSA: So, I think it’s okay to just explore. And, you know, just because you’re writing something doesn’t mean that you have to share it.
NICOLA: Yeah.
VANESSA: You can just write it.
NICOLA: Yeah.
VANESSA: And I think this is one thing that happens again with social media. We have this instant… I mean, I love expressing, right? You have this instant moment of expression. Instant, right? But with a book, there is… You have to hold it secret.
NICOLA: Yep.
VANESSA: For a long time. And that’s a very different place to be in, in terms of expression. And I… Just speaking out-loud right now, I just feel like the book can hold the fears.
NICOLA: Yep.
VANESSA: I can hold the book. And spirit can hold me.
NICOLA: Yeah. That’s gorgeous. That feels really powerful.
VANESSA: Thank you.
NICOLA: It really does, and it is. It’s like, we’re not on our own in the writing… Like, there’s the essence or the energy of the book that wants to be written. And, you know, you don’t know exactly what form it’s going to take right now, but that will become clear. So, you’re kind of held in the process. And I think that’s one of the ways that it does feel different from sharing on social media or in any other way. You’re working in partnership with this other kind of energy that wants to express through you. Oh my goodness. Just there’s such a kind of exciting and tender stage at the moment with the book writing. I’m so grateful to you for kind of being willing to talk at this stage. Because I know, like, it can feel… It can just feel really… It can feel messy throughout the process, but I think at this point, it can feel incredibly messy. So, in terms of your writing practice, Vanessa, how are you approaching it at the moment? I think it would be interesting for people to hear. Or is there no set approach? It’s just like whatever?
VANESSA: So, I’m really busy, and I manage multiple projects.
NICOLA: Yeah.
VANESSA: And so, I have tried so many times in my life to say, “I’m going to do this at this time.” Like, I’m going to write in the morning. I’ve tried to do morning pages. You know, and even in my spiritual practice, people always ask me about that because of the priestessing.
NICOLA: Yep.
VANESSA: And what I find works best for me, honestly, is to hold the intention and to show up completely present as often as possible. So, that might look like every day, or it might look like every week. Or, you know, I might get into a period where it’s like, okay, this actually needs to come forward first. And just kind of trusting all of that. But I do need to sit down and really think about how this is going to work. And I feel like with this… Again, I don’t know what will happen. I started… I’ve started, you know, making notes and writing things down. And, you know, getting a sense of the heart of what this is. And I don’t… I don’t know yet whether or not that’s gonna happen really quickly. And it’s just gonna be: I’ll write every night. I need to just write and write and write. Or if it’s the kind of thing that needs to kind of come in layers and pieces. I just don’t know yet. And I think there was a time when I would be… Be concerned about that. But one of the things that I’ve learned is that when it comes to soul stuff, putting it in my to-do list kills it.
NICOLA: Yeah.
VANESSA: I can put my tasks, you know, the commitments, the deadlines that I’ve contracted with other people and that I’ve made. Work tasks. Things like that. They need to show up on my calendar to do them. But, I mean, I remember even putting my spiritual practice on my to-do list. Because I do my to-do list!
NICOLA; Yep.
VANESSA: I get things done!
NICOLA: Yep.
VANESSA: I’m like, “Oh, I’m gonna do that!” Poof. Killed it. So, I don’t know. We’ll find out.
NICOLA: Mm! Absolutely! Exactly! No, it’s great. Like you say, I’ve had that experience, as well. I can’t be… Like, I can’t be prescriptive with myself about how I’m going to approach my writing or any kind of creative work. It’s like, no. I just have to allow it to come through in whatever way it wants to. And, you know, I think you’ve created this container for the book to come through by making this very strong and clear commitment. And it will come through, and how it does that, we’ll see!
VANESSA: So, I have, like, a digital physical container for it.
NICOLA; Yeah! Fantastic! There’s different layers of container. Oh, just wonderful. Oh, Vanessa, thank you so much, like I said, for, you know, being willing to talk about it at this really tender stage. I so appreciate it. And thank you so much for the work you’re doing in the world. You’ve been such an inspiration to me. Like, since I found you online. So, thank goodness for social media.
VANESSA: Yay!
NICOLA: It does create these amazing connections. For people who want to find out more about you, Vanessa, and what you do, what’s the best way for them to do that?
VANESSA: Everything is on VanessaSage.com.
NICOLA; Mm hmm. Perfect. We’ll make sure the link’s around this video, so people can find you easily. And yeah, keep us posted about the book. Follow Vanessa on social media to find out more.
VANESSA: I actually send out Sunday love letters.
NICOLA: Yes!
VANESSA: And, you know, a big part of that is just me sitting and being present and writing every week. And, again, I never know what’s gonna show up. I literally just sit down and am present with my heart and connect. So, that’s another way to stay in touch, as well.
NICOLA: Oh, absolutely. And you can really feel that sense of presence, actually. Like, receiving them. Every Sunday I look forward to it. And it’s like, ah! It’s just gorgeous. I can really feel that, yeah, that it’s come through in that way. So, thank you for that, as well. Well, Vanessa, we’ll have to have another conversation when the book is actually making it’s way into the world. So, hopefully we’ll get to do that. And, like I said, thank you so much for sharing with us today.
VANESSA: Thank you for having me and for inviting me. Honestly, when you asked me, it felt like another sign. Like when my mom said, “Write the book.” It’s like, all right! Write the book!
NICOLA: There’s no way you’re not writing this book, is there?
VANESSA: Damn!
NICOLA: Oh, fantastic. Thank you, Vanessa. And we will see you again soon for another episode of Unbound. Bye!
Find out more about Vanessa and her work here: https://www.vanessasage.com
